Rant: European Union and the right for secession....

[handy.harris]

Hy,

in the European Union we currently have a quarrel about the new (well it's like the second or thrid draft) constitution. So far all countries but Irland ratified (signed) it. And as soon as this happened, some people in Germany filed a lawsuit at the supreme court. They state that the European constition is violating the German constitution.
Basically saying, that both at the same time are not possible. So one of them has to go.
If the german court gives way for the European constitution, they, in fact, render themselves void.

Which now brings me to the issue of "making laws"....
So far, the EU basically ratifies a law, which the member states have to apply to their own. Always giving room for local specialities in different countries. One law which does make sense in Spain, doesn't neceseraly make any snse in Austria or Poland.

By now more and more people start to disagree with the new laws comming from Brussel (EU goverment city). Some (about 40% in Austria) loudly start to talk about leaving the EU.

Which brings me back to Germanys lawsuit.... (we have a similar lawsuit here)

This whole situation reminds me of something... can't think of what, but.... ;-)

Just a thought from Europe....

regards
Handy

[diddyriddick]

Thanks for that post, Harris. It is nice to know that we Americans are not the only ones who can't see the forest for the trees sometimes.

[M E Wolf]

Dear Handy.Harris,

Seems that Mrs. E. Roosevelt met up with the same difficulties in her quest to pass legislation for the League of Nations, after WWII. In working with all the countries, as language translates differently and their meanings; she too had to work with all of this and find common ground.
She was a very clever woman and having worked so closely with the President and speaking for him as a representative; she got her training during the war.

Perhaps this needs to be revisited by all nations as to come to a common ground, as not to violate any nation's constitution.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf

[gary]

Over here in America, there is talk that we have treaties that supercede our own Constitution. If it is true, many of we Americans will feel very upset and betrayed by our politicians.

[Scribe]

Originally Posted by gary

Over here in America, there is talk that we have treaties that supercede our own Constitution. If it is true, many of we Americans will feel very upset and betrayed by our politicians.

T'aint so.

"This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding."

Note the order of precedence. The Constitution comes first, federal law second, and treaties third. Note also that's its state constitutions that cannot override the U.S. Constitution, federal law, treaties

[handy.harris]

Well, I figure that we here in Europe are having a "States Rights" issue - kinda the same the U.S. had in 1860s...

That's basically what I wanted to say.
Constitution always HAS to come before any law! That's a fact - quarrel over here is that the EU constitution overrides the one of the state itself - and this is a MAJOR issue....
Go think on it - same issues - different states - different continent - and hopefully (well, I am sure of it) no war resulting from it.

Handy

[gary]

Europeans disunite! Throw off the shackles that bind you and assert yourself under the colours of your own national authority. We are (separate) bands o' brothers, and native to our soil, fighting for our liberty with treasure, blood and toil.

I know it's been disasterous for England as a lot of criminals have gone there because of the lax English laws. I have a friend who is in the Metropolitan Police and he told me that they don't even arrest burglars after they've been caught for a third time. "Now, behave yourself or we'll really arrest you and deport you next time. We mean it too." Their courts and jails are overcrowded and the criminals really take advantage of those circumstances.

[handy.harris]

Originally Posted by gary

Europeans disunite! Throw off the shackles that bind you and assert yourself under the colours of your own national authority. We are (separate) bands o' brothers, and native to our soil, fighting for our liberty with treasure, blood and toil.

I'll sign that anytime! ;-)
But you know - there is an economic issue as well.... without the European Union, each state on his own - we sorta suck! *gg*

Handy

[Freddy]

What The United States of Europe is having problems with governing all those countries? Countries want to keep their sovereignty and not allow the federal union to dictate the law in Europe. You remember what happened in the US when 11 Southern states tried to revolt from a federal union they believed was moving against slavery which their economies were built on. I hope some major issue does not divide the EU to that extent.

[Michael19103]

Apples and oranges! The European Union is not (and I hope never will be) in any sense a nation like the United States. I do pay some attention to it (a desire to improve my French, a few years back, morphed quickly into arguably too much time spent on French and Belgian news sites and later their forums) and I have to say I was happy when the French and Dutch, in quick succession, voted against the previous version of the "constitution" (and it's typically French that the reaction was to have it revised slightly and this time provide that parliament alone could ratify it). Those countries have very distinct identities and histories and it sometimes seems that the EU is ready to ride roughshod over them in the interest of a uniformity I don't see the point of (the attempt, a few years back, to mandate "Made in Europe" and FORBID "Made in France, or Italy, or wherever" on product labels; occasional talk of getting the British to change their time zone, banning moldy French cheeses....) If the European Union thinks it's modeling itself on the United States, I'm afraid it's acting, as per usual, on fundamental misunderstandings of how the U.S. works.
All right, that's the end of my rant, and the state of the EU is none of my business. But I for one encourage you, handy.harris, whatever you do, to not go so far that you lose what makes you Austrian and not German or Italian or French (not that there's anything wrong with being German, or Italian, or French; it's just that I think diversity of cultures is in itself something worth protecting.)
And thanks for your interest in our history; often, I'm the one in your position on Francophone forums. Also, willkommen (ich hab' auch ein Bisschen Deutsch studiert).