Rant: European Union and the right for secession....

[handy.harris]

Vielen Dank!

I agree with you. Austrians have a different culture as well as a different way of doing things than Spanish, German, Italian,..... That's what makes Europe so unique. And this makes Europe such a nice place to live in. Just an hour away from my home is the Czech, the Slovakian and Hungarian border. Add another hour and I am in Germany, Slovenia or Italy. And all those places are different. The people are different, the cities look different, the food is different. And it should stay that way.
Just my 2 cents!

Handy

[Elennsar]

It would not be a bad idea for some things (such as currency and laws) to be standardized, however.

As to say "Made in Austria"...

Who cares? As in, you're going to say that the cheese was made in _____ (detail) anyway, so let people put "Austria".

That's ludicrious.

Uniformity is not a bad thing. But it only is a good thing where diversity is a hindrance to things running smoothly.

[handy.harris]

Well, we do have a single currency here - the Euro. And that's a good thing.

As to laws..... well I agree and disagree at the same time.

For instance: A law forcing people to save on Water does make perfect sense in Spain. But in Austria, England or Germany (just to name a few) it doesn't.

Firearms are forbidden in England. No matter what, there are NO firearms allowed in private hands.
Here in Austria, we have more Firearms per head than the U.S. does. (Not sure wether that's really true but it sounds reasonable given all our hunters and such - note not the total ammount of firearms is higher, it's just that the average Austrian owns more guns than the average american). So, should Austria give up their arms? It is my constitutional right to own a firearm! But the EU just does not give a f*** about it. They for now want to regulate firearms in the whole of Europe. For now it is just to bring each country to the same level, but who knows what they come up with after that.......

Handy

[Elennsar]

Right (in regards to laws). I meant for things like oh, murder. Regional circumstances have to be weighed in judging what's "excessive" for things like water or gun ownership (speaking as someone in favor of gun control, if it interests you, but that's off topic).

But if you commit murder in France, you should get the same trial with the same rights and the same punishment whether you're tried in Madrid, Paris, Berlin, Vienna, or Rome.

[handy.harris]

I'll support that!

[trice]

Originally Posted by gary

Over here in America, there is talk that we have treaties that supercede our own Constitution. If it is true, many of we Americans will feel very upset and betrayed by our politicians.

Under the Constitution, any treaty approved by the Senate and signed by the President becomes part of US law. As such, they can not supercede the Constitution. You might find that the Supreme Court would decide some clauses in them would be in conflict with some parts of the Constitution if a test case was brought before the Court. If so, the Court would rule in favor of the Constitution.

Tim

[Bobbie]

Dear Klaus & fellow Members of the CWT,
I was away for a few weeks, so I've had no opportunity to join this interesting discussion earlier.

I wanted to begin with some remarks:

So far all countries but Irland ratified (signed) it

My country, Poland, also didn't ratify the constitutional treaty of EU. We already have the Constitution and don't need no new one

Another thing- we don't use the Euro in Poland. We use our traditional currency- PLN (zloty) and most probably you wouldn't buy a thing with Euros, even in the center of Warsaw (our capital).

I think (and hope) that European countries would never become one nation, so the European Union would never become the "United States" of Europe. I agree that every country has its own unique culture, traditions and even perception of history. This is important disunifying agent: Poland and Germany for example would never be able to create a common WW2 history handbook, Poland and Czech Republic would never agree on a common version of Cieszyn Silesia conflict, and so on.
If for some of you history is not important, nowadays economics in Europe also cannot be common. For example: take a look at the gas pipeline projec between Germany and Russia- the project would be beneficial for Germans, but it is harmful for the interest of Poland and other Baltic Sea countries, as it would threat our energy security.

And finally I will return to the constitutional treaty of the EU. When the people of Ireland rejected the treaty in referendum, some opinions in France and other countries were voiced that EU should ratify the treaty in spite of the Irish veto, and even that Ireland should be somehow punished. This is a warning, that should not be ignored- this is how some of eorocrats perceive "state rights".

If any secession movement would arise in EU in future, I hope that my country would be the first to secede