Lee's involvement in combat

[bankerpapaw]

Was Robert E. Lee ever involved directly in combat?

[ole]

On a few occasions, he got too close, but mostly he stayed where a commander ought to be: close enough to direct operations but far enough away to direct after-battle movements.

A dead commander is more than useless. He no longer exercises command and cannot effectively direct after-action movement. When a Colonel drops, he has backups. When a general drops, there are at least three colonels who are cast to the winds.

Given. The colonels and brigadiers were advised of the plan which was shot to hell when engagement was made. After that, the decisions devolve on the commanding general's last-minute decisions.

Scuzi. Guess I rambled off again. Lee got a bit too close to the action more than a few times, which gives rise to "Lee to the rear!" But he never got so close as to lead a brigade in a charge on a position. (ala A.S. Johnston.) At least, not to my knowledge.

ole

[hoosier]

The closest he came during the Civil War was probably at the Battle of the Wilderness, where in an impulsive moment he rode out in front of his troops and gave indication that he was about to personally lead a charge. His horrified soldiers called "General Lee, to the rear!" whereupon he came to his senses and moved to where he belonged.

I'm not sure whether Lee might have done anything during the Mexican War or at any other time during his military career that might have qualified as being directly involved in combat. I guess it would also depend on how you define "directly involved."

[ole]

Ooooooh! Forgot about that Hoosier. And he was involved directly in the Harpers Ferry incident.

ole

[diddyriddick]

Not sure if this falls in the purview of your question, Papaw, but Lee was definitely involved directly in combat earlier in his career. He was brevetted in the Mexican war for gallantry; he also personally led the US forces who stormed John Brown's men at Harper's Ferry.

[trice]

Originally Posted by hoosier

I'm not sure whether Lee might have done anything during the Mexican War or at any other time during his military career that might have qualified as being directly involved in combat. I guess it would also depend on how you define "directly involved."

Robert E. Lee came out of the Mexican War justly famed for his personal courage.

His first command under fire was the battery of naval guns used at the siege of Vera Cruz. His brother, Sydney Smith Lee, was also there, assigned to command the 64-lber brought ashore from USS Mississippi. Raphael Semmes was another of the USN officers sent to serve in the battery. In three days, Lee's battery of naval guns pumped about 1800 rounds into the city.

His first battle was Cerro Gordo. As a staff officer, he did not directly command a combat unit, but was recognized for his daring and skill. From Scott's report: "... I am impelled to make special mention of the services of Captain R. E. Lee, engineers. This officer, greatly distinguished at the siege of Vera Cruz, was again indefatigable, during these operations, in reconnaissance as daring as laborious, and of the utmost value. Nor was he less conspicuous in planting batteries, and in conducting columns to their stations under the heavy fire of the enemy."

And so on, all the way on the campaign into Mexico City.

Tim

[M E Wolf]

Dear Bankerpaw;

I have to agree with Ole's post.

It is written in several manuals that the 'commanding officer' should be 128 feet behind his command; usually a flag/colors born by a 'color sergeant' near him as to guide couriers to the general/commanding officer wherever he is on the battle field. Cavalry Commanders had use of guidons as a means to guide couriers to him.

As for General Robert E. Lee; Longstreet's Corps, the Texans saw General Lee too far forward and 'arrested him' and sent him to the rear. The other incident was when General Gordon's men surrounded General Lee and encircled him and with their bodies forced Traveller with Lee on him back behind the lines. Once safe; in these two incidents--the men went back to their soldierly functions.

Reminiscences Of The Civil War (Gordon)
Chapter XX--Spottsylvania
General Lee evidently thought so. His army had been cut in twain by Hancock's brilliant coup de main. Through that wide breach in the Confederate lines, which was becoming wider with every step, the Union forces were rushing like a swollen torrent through a broken mill-dam. General Lee knew, as did every one else who realized the momentous import of the situation, that the bulk of the Confederate army was in such imminent peril that nothing could rescue it except a counter-movement, quick, impetuous, and decisive. Lee resolved to save it, and, if need be, to save it at the sacrifice of his own life. With perfect self-poise, he rode to the margin of that breach, and appeared upon the scene just as I had completed the alignment of my troops and was in the act of moving in that crucial countercharge upon which so much depended. As he rode majestically in front of my line of battle, with uncovered head and mounted on Old Traveller, Lee looked a very god of war. Calmly and grandly, he rode to a point near the centre of my line and turned his horse's head to the front, evidently resolved to lead in person the desperate charge and drive Hancock back or perish in the effort. I knew what he meant; and although the passing moments were of priceless value, I resolved to arrest him in his effort, and thus save to the Confederacy the life of its great leader. I was at the centre of that line when General Lee rode to it. With uncovered head, he turned his face toward Hancock's advancing column. Instantly I spurred my horse across Old Traveller's front, and grasping his bridle in my hand, I checked him. Then, in a voice which I hoped might reach the ears of my men and command their attention, :I called out, "General Lee, you shall not lead my men in a charge. No man can do that, sir. Another is here for that purpose. These men behind you are Georgians, Virginians, and Carolinians. They have never failed you on any field. They will not fail you here. Will you, boys?" The response came like a mighty anthem that must have stirred his emotions as no other music could have done. Although the answer to those three words, "Will you, boys?" came in the monosyllables, "No, no, no; we'll not fail him," yet they were doubtless to him more eloquent because of their simplicity and momentous meaning. But his great heart was destined to be quickly cheered by a still sub-limer testimony of their deathless devotion. As this first thrilling response died away, I uttered the words for which they were now fully prepared. I shouted to General Lee, "You must go to rear." The echo, "General Lee to the rear, General Lee to the rear !" rolled back with tremendous emphasis from the throats of my men; and they gathered around him, turned his horse in the opposite direction, some clutching his bridle, some his stirrups, while others pressed close to Old Traveller's hips, ready to shove him by main force to the rear. I verily believe that, had it been necessary or possible, they would have carried on their shoulders both horse and rider to a place of safety.

This entire scene, with all its details of wonderful pathos and deep meaning, had lasted but a few minutes, and yet it was a powerful factor in the rescue of Lee's army. It had lifted these soldiers to the very highest plane of martial enthusiasm. The presence of their idolized commander-in-chief, his purpose to lead them in person, his magnetic and majestic presence, and the spontaneous pledges which they had just made to him, all conspired to fill them with an ardor and intensity of emotion such as have rarely possessed a body of troops in any war. The most commonplace soldier was uplifted and transformed into a veritable Ajax. To say that every man m those brigades was prepared for the most heroic work or to meet a heroic death would be but a lame description of the impulse which seemed to bear them forward in wildest transport. Fully realizing the value of such inspiration for the accomplishment of the bloody task assigned them, I turned to my men as Lee was forced to the rear, and reminding them of their pledges to him, and of the fact that the eyes of their great leader were still upon them, I ordered, "Forward !"
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From Manassas to Appotamox (Longstreet)
Chapter XXXVIII.—Battle Of The Wilderness.

Hancock advanced and struck the divisions before sunrise, just as my command reported to General Lee. My line was formed on the right and left of the Plank road, Kershaw on the right, Field on the left. As the line deployed, the divisions of Heth and Wilcox came back upon us in disorder, more and more confused as their steps hurried under Hancock's musketry. As my ranks formed the men broke files to give free passage for their comrades to the rear. The advancing fire was getting brisk, but not a shot was fired in return by my troops until the divisions were ready. Three of Field's brigades, the Texas, Alabama, and Benning's Georgia, were formed in line on the left of the road, and three of Kershaw's on the right. General Lee, appalled at the condition of affairs, thought to lead the Texas brigade alone into desperate charge, before my lines were well formed. The ordeal was trying, but the steady troops, seeing him off his balance, refused to follow, begged him to retire, and presently Colonel Venable, of his staff, reported to me General Lee's efforts to lead the brigade, and suggested that I should try to call him from it. I asked that he would say, with my compliments, that his line would be recovered in an hour if he would permit me to handle the troops, but if my services were not needed, I would like to ride to some place of safety, as it was not quite comfortable where we were.

As full lines of battle could not be handled through the thick wood, I ordered the advance of the six brigades by heavy skirmish lines, to be followed by stronger supporting lines. Hancock's lines, thinned by their push through the wood, and somewhat by the fire of the disordered divisions, weaker than my line of fresh and more lively skirmishers, were checked by our first steady, rolling fire, and after a brisk fusillade were pushed back to their intrenched line, when the fight became steady and very firm, occasionally swinging parts of my line back and compelling the reserves to move forward and recover it.
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Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf

[ltkepper]

Gen. Lee had to tell his own Generals to stay back and dont get in front of the army

[M E Wolf]

Dear Ole;

General Lee, then "Colonel" Lee; was sent as a commander to Harpers Ferry in regard to John Brown's raid and holding hostages at the arsenal.
He did not physically lead the assault; he also did not have his uniform but; then Lt. JEB Stuart did; as did the Marines and the militia from Maryland. Stuart spoke to Brown and gave the signals for the Marines and militia to storm the arsenal. Lee remained behind safe lines at a safe distance.
---------------------------------
Recollections and Letters of General Robert E. Lee
Chapter I—Services In The United States Army
I saw but little of my father after we left West Point. He went to Texas, as I have stated, in '55 and remained until the fall of '57, the time of my grandfather's death. He was then at Arlington about a year. Returning to his regiment, he remained in Texas until the autumn of '59, when he came again to Arlington, having applied for leave in order to finish the settling of my grandfather's estate. During this visit he was selected by the Secretary of War to suppress the famous "John Brown Raid," and was sent to Harper's Ferry in command of the United States troops.
From his memorandum book the following entries are taken:
"October 17, 1859. Received orders from the Secretary of War in person, to repair in evening train to Harper's Ferry.
"Reached Harper's Ferry at 11 P.M. .... Posted marines in the United States Armory. Waited until daylight, as a number of citizens were held as hostages, whose lives were threatened. Tuesday about sunrise, with twelve marines, under Lieutenant Green, broke in the door of the engine-house, secured the insurgents, and relieved the prisoners unhurt. All the insurgents killed or mortally wounded, but four, John Brown, Stevens, Coppie, and Shields."
Brown was tried and convicted and sentenced to be hanged on December 2, 1859. Colonel Lee writes as follows to his wife:
HARPER'S FERRY, December 1, 1859.
"I arrived here, dearest Mary, yesterday about noon, with four companies from Fort Monroe, and was busy all the evening and night getting accommodation for the men, etc., and posting sentinels and piquets to insure timely notice of the approach of the enemy. The night has passed off quietly. The feelings of the community seem to be calmed down, and I have been received with every kindness. Mr. Fry is among the officers from Old Point. There are several young men, former acquaintances of ours, as cadets, Mr. Bingham of Custis's class, Sam Cooper, etc., but the senior officers I never met before, except Captain Howe, the friend of our Cousin Harriet R—.
"I presume we are fixed here till after the 16th. Tomorrow will probably be the last of Captain Brown. There will be less interest for the others, but still I think the troops will not be withdrawn till they are similarly disposed of.
"Custis will have informed you that I had to go to Baltimore the evening I left you, to make arrangements for the transportation for the troops .... This morning I was introduced to Mrs. Brown, who, with a Mrs. Tyndall and a Mr. and Mrs. McKim, all from Philadelphia, had come on to have a last interview with her husband. As it is a matter over which I have no control I referred them to General Taliaferro.(*)
"You must write to me at this place. I hope you are all well. Give love to everybody. Tell Smith(+) that no charming women have insisted on taking care of me as they are always doing of him—I am left to my own resources. I will write you again soon, and will always be truly and affectionately yours,
"Mrs. M. C. Lee.
R. E. LEE."
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Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf

[5fish]

I was thinking of Spotsylvania were he would go get the brigades he wanted and guide it to the breach in the line. This is where some of those "Lee to the rear" stories come from. He directed the building of the new breastworks at Spotsylvania that cut off the breach area.

At the crater, Lee was trying to rally the fleeing troops when Gordon's men came up he began to lead them toward the gap and another "Lee to the rear" story.

What would one would call 2nd Manassas where Lee is wounded. He and his staff were watching the battle when a group of union troops happened across them.

Lee never as far as I know led troops into a direct fight but he was close enough many times that he could have be killed.


A few musing thoughts...