Campfire Chat - General DiscussionsThis is a forum for posting discussion topics, questions, current events, and anything else you'd like to chat about. Please post serious Civil War History threads in appropriate History Forums.
Normally, the 15th Wisconsin was the Norwegian Regiment. It doesn't mean that there wasn't a Norwegian Company or two garrisoning a blockhouse on the River. I can understand the panic ensuing when being charged by a hundred or so naked Norwegiians. Would scare the bejesus out of me. You simply can't trust a naked Norwegian. No telling what he'll do. Especially if he has a fixed bayonet and doesn't have the foggiest notion of what you're saying when you throw down your musket and say, "I surrender." You're likely to be so much shish kebab (not a Norwegian specialty) by the time they've figured out what you're saying. Near as I can figure, you'd have to say "nicht shiesen." Which is German, but it's close enough.
Thank you Shane, for sharing the story. Not in my wildest imagination can I see 50 naked Norwegians running (and waggling) across the field at me. Bad enough to have one fully clothed and a bit red in the face with one or two beers too many tucked under his belt. Guess you've been there once or twice in your lifetime.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Okay. Hands down, perhaps the best civil war story I have read.
Thanks for sharing.
__________________ "There must be more historians of the Civil War than there were generals figthing in it... Of the two groups, the historians are the more belligerent." David Donald, Lincoln Reconsidered (1961)
There was a similar story told during Sherman's advance on Atlanta. Was a small Yank patrol crossed the river, shed their clothes, found a Confederate picket post and did pretty much the same thing. One of the Rebs was heard to say something like, "They oughtn't to have come at us that way."
Could be a bit discombobulating.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
The story made the rounds of the Army of the Tennessee in June of 64 which is where I furst read of it. I have no doubt it was greatly embelished but as I have read of the incident in at least three different period sources over the years I have no doubt the bassis at least is true. I too suspect members of the 15th Wisconsin... but that said many Regiments D Company was a nesting place for non english speaking immigrants.
There were block houses up and down the Tennessee River guarding various crossing points and ferry's. I don't think it would really be possible to isolate exactly where it happened. It's one of those stories that stick w/ you.
__________________
Shane Christen
American Legion Post 352
SUVCW Camp Abernethy# 48
Lifetime NRA member
3rd MN VI
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Eccl 1:18
Shane, blockhouses in Tennessee for the most part were located at points where railroad bridges occurred. There were, for instance, a half dozen between Nashville and Murfreesboro along the Nashville-Chattanooga RR. There was a large blockhouse at the railroad bridge across the Cumberland at Nashville's riverfront. I'm confident they would have occurred at landing points along the Tennessee at least as far upstream as Huntsville. As Ole stated, a naked Norwegian with 'waggle' would have been a concerted distraction. Forrest used his little canons for much the same purpose, just to draw attention and startle the enemy. War is war.
Thanks for the story, by the way!
__________________
Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
An interestin battle that is almost unknown is the Battle of Cumberland Church, Cumberland, VA
On April 6, Lee's forces had crossed High Bridge and marched to Farmville. It was there that Lee learned that Union infantry and calvary had crossed the Appomattox river on another smaller bridge below High Bridge and were attempting to flank him. Lee sent Mahone's and Anderson's men to hold off the II Corps. It began at 2pm on the 7th and while it was brief, Lee protected his army and accomplished one of the South's last victories. Union casualties stood at 655, Confederate 250. Brig. Gen. J.I. Gregg (Calvary) was captured there and Union Gen. Thomas Smythe was shot in the face by a Confederate sharpshooter during a skirmish with Gen. Gordon's rear at the intersection of Farmville Rd and High Bridge rd. He was the last Union general to be killed during the war. Over 100 Union infantry were captured there along with "an entire birgade" (according to written accounts) of Union troops and officers. The battle was also the last of the fighting the II Corps would see during the war.
__________________
"Persons can talk about the horrors of war but to witness them is a different matter altogether."
--Lt. Col. John Gibson, 14th VA Calvary, battle at Philippi, June 3, 1861
I will bring up the Second Battle of Sabine Pass in Sept of 1863. The Union sent four gunboats and eighteen transports with 5000 troops to take Ft. Griffin.
There were 44 confederate troops defending the fort against this much larger union force. Before the battle the Confederates had placed distance markers in the pass so to better judge their aim.
The union commander sent his four gunboats up into the pass and were pounced on by the artillery in the fort. With the distance markers in the water the confederate fire was very accurate and within minutes two union gunboats were knocked out of action and 200 sailors capture. The whole battle was of to lasted only 40 minutes.
The final total was 200 capture sailors and the battle was going down as the most lopsided victory for the confederacy during the war. Months later, Pres. Davis called the Battle of Sabine Pass the Confederate Thermopylae....
__________________
"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
Not unknown battles, but two battles which recieve little coverage.
1862 Drurys Bluff, where Union gunboats tried to force a passage of the James river. The gunboats, which included the Monitor were halted by the Confederate guns mounted in the fort at Drurys Bluff.
1863 Bristoe Station (various spellings), where the Corps of DH Hill were ambushed by Warrens II Corp.
THE BATTLE OF THE CEDARS
Murfreesboro
Wilkinson Pike, Cedars Tennessee
(from National Park Service brochures)
American Civil War December 5-7, 1864
In a last, desperate attempt to force Maj. Gen. William T. Sherman's army out of Georgia, Gen. John Bell Hood led the Army of Tennessee north toward Nashville in November 1864. Although he suffered a terrible loss at Franklin, he continued toward Nashville. In operating against Nashville, he decided that destruction of the Nashville & Chattanooga Railroad and disruption of the Union army supply depot at Murfreesboro would help his cause. He sent Maj. Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest, on December 4, with an expedition, composed of two cavalry divisions and Maj. Gen. William B. Bate's infantry division, to Murfreesboro. On December 2, Hood had ordered Bate to destroy the railroad and blockhouses between Murfreesboro and Nashville and join Forrest for further operations; on December 4, Bate's division attacked Blockhouse No. 7 protecting the railroad crossing at Overall Creek, but Union forces fought it off. On the morning of the 5th, Forrest headed out toward Murfreesboro, splitting his force, one column to attack the fort on the hill and the other to take Blockhouse No. 4, both at La Vergne. Upon his demand for surrender at both locations, the Union garrisons did so. Outside La Vergne, Forrest hooked up with Bate's division and the command advanced on to Murfreesboro along two roads, driving the Yankees into their Fortress Rosencrans fortifications, and encamped in the city outskirts for the night. The next morning, on the 6th, Forrest ordered Bate's division to "move upon the enemy's works." Fighting flared for a couple of hours, but the Yankees ceased firing and both sides glared at each other for the rest of the day. Brig. Gen. Claudius Sears' and Brig. Gen. Joseph B. Palmer's infantry brigades joined Forrest's command in the evening, further swelling his numbers. On the morning of the 7th, Maj. Gen. Lovell Rousseau, commanding all of the forces at Murfreesboro, sent two brigades out under Brig. Gen. Robert Milroy on the Salem Pike to feel out the enemy. These troops engaged the Confederates and fighting continued. At one point some of Forrest's troops broke and ran causing disorder in the Rebel ranks; even entreaties from Forrest and Bate did not stem the rout of these units. The rest of Forrest's command conducted an orderly retreat from the field and encamped for the night outside Murfreesboro. Forrest had destroyed railroad track, blockhouses, and some homes and generally disrupted Union operations in the area, but he did not accomplish much else. The raid on Murfreesboro was a minor irritation.
Result(s): Union victory
Location: Rutherford County
Campaign: Franklin-Nashville Campaign (1864)
Date(s): December 5-7, 1864
Principal Commanders: Maj. Gen. Lovell H. Rousseau and Brig. Gen. Robert Milroy [US]; Maj. Gen. Nathan Bedford Forrest [CS]
Forces Engaged: District of Tennessee (forces in Murfreesboro area; approx. 8,000) [US]; Forrest's Cavalry, Bate's Infantry Division, and Brig. Gen. Claudius Sears's and Brig. Gen. Joseph B. Palmer's Infantry Brigades (6,500-7,000) [CS]
Estimated Casualties: 422 total (US 225; CS 197)
Federal General Jacob D. Cox, in his memoir, noted that Palmer’s Brigade, which included the 63rd, was brought up to reinforce Bate’s Division at Murfreesboro on the evening of December 6. The 63rd and Palmer’s Brigade were under General Nathan Bedford Forrest’s command in the Battle of the Cedars at Murfreesboro, Tennessee, fought on December 7, 1864. This event occurred on the southern edge of the battlefield site of 1862 along present-day Manson Pike then known as Wilkinson Pike. The 63rd lost at least one killed, three wounded and seven taken prisoner, but its casualties were probably much greater.
__________________
Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
How about a forgotten fight within a major battle. The fighting at Spotsylvannia CH around the mule shoe salient, is one of the most written about episodes of the war. There is far less written about the fighting on the Confederate left in the area of Laurel Hill and south of the Po river. The Union infantry assaulting Laurel Hill suffered very heavily. It was also close to the foot of the hill that Sedgewick was killed by a sharpshooter.