Irish Ulterior Motives

[TheColonel]

From the obscure: Has anyone done any research into the premise that some of the Irish that fought in service to the Union had the ulterior motive of gaining military experience so they could go back to the Land of Eire to fight against the English? Ultimately, it ended up manifesting itself in an invasion from US soil into Canada in June of 1866.

[ole]

Was waiting with you Colonel for the answer to this one. Trust me, someone knows. I've seen reference to some Irishers wanting training or encouraging emmigration to get experience, but I don't think I've seen it as more than a speculative inference; i.e., no primary source.

Which doesn't mean there were none, just that I haven't seen any. Somewhere in one of these forums is a thread on foreign recruiting. While you're waiting for a definitive answer, it might be worthwhile to check that out.

ole

[gary]

Best thing to do is to read some of those Irish regimental histories and those by leading Irishmen of the days. There were certainly Fenians who wanted to do what you described but their intent was to brew trouble in Canada so as to draw elements of the English Army away from the ould country.

[TheColonel]

I figure if anyone knows, it would be this crowd

One web source to check out is: http://www.acsu.buffalo.edu/~dbertuca/g/FenianRaid.html

If memory serves, I recall seeing an article in Civil War Times on the assertion that many fought with the intent to gain experience to use later against England. Not to imply they weren't patriotic and they certainly were courageous in battle, just that they also had plans for follow-on action.

[ole]

And in that link, Colonel, you might have your answer: Certainly, among the many thousands of Irish immigrants, there were some (I'd have to see more evidence to assume "many") who intended to go back home and take up arms against England.

We're probably talking about only those who came over when war became assured. That should reduce the number of Fenian types.

ole

[trice]

Originally Posted by ole

And in that link, Colonel, you might have your answer: Certainly, among the many thousands of Irish immigrants, there were some (I'd have to see more evidence to assume "many") who intended to go back home and take up arms against England.

We're probably talking about only those who came over when war became assured. That should reduce the number of Fenian types.

If you look into the history of the Irish and the Civil War, you'll see plenty of references to this desire to serve in this war to prepare for fighting the British. It was openly spoken about in New York and Philadelphia and probably other cities when they were recruiting the Irish regiments, usually by the recruiters and officers. You'll also find one of the post war leaders of the fiasco/invasion of Canada in 1866 was a senior Union officer (Brigadier? Name Thomas Sweeney, maybe?).

You'll also find estimates that about 10% of Irish soldiers in the Union Army were contributing money to the Fenians during the war. No idea how accurate they were.

Regards,
Tim