Ends vs. Means

[ole]

A recent post got me thinking (Head for the hills, ma! ). Do the ends justify the means always, sometimes, never? I lean to sometimes, but that's just me. Or is it one of those catch phrases that everybody uses when it suits them and no one has actually thought about? Or something else?

If I stipulate that "what ends; what means" is out of bounds, will this be the first and last post on this thread?

Ole

[johan_steele]

Originally Posted by ole

Or is it one of those catch phrases that everybody uses when it suits them and no one has actually thought about? BINGO!!
If I stipulate that "what ends; what means" is out of bounds, will this be the first and last post on this thread?

Ole

Well, I gradatated HS w/ a really nice GPA, never mind that I failed the College entrance exam for math and was forced to take Algebra 98 before I took 101... especially never mind that they felt it needed to have a 98 (remedial) class in the first place or English 98... etc. The state said we gradutated therefore we were ready right? It taked me four years to be learned to spake this way! First year of college is used to teach or correct incorrect teaching for most US students... scary eh?

While in the USAF I volunteered to help find kids willing to become exchange students and also find host families. I devised a simple (I thought) test to make certain I wasn't going to approve any twits going to Germany, France etc to represent the US. Answers I received as to the location of Hawaii... and I thought my mom was geographically challenged!

THe long & short of it is that the ends justify the means... when it is convenient. Our education sys, get them out the door... never mind if they can do simple algebra, know Lincoln from FDR etc. or not.

Do the ends justify the means in War... who won? Whats more important winning the battle or the campaign?

Well I guess that makes me a barbarian... hehe well as I have a lot of respect for the Huns, Pechenegs, Mongols, Lakota, Apache and other assorted "Barbarians" who put major smack down on "civilized" folks... I may not be the right guy to form an opinion.

[JerseyBart]

Ole,

I think with most phrases, they probably did have a meaning for a long time, but after they become popular or part of the vernacular (yes, I just used a big word, but I think that I stole it from someone who used it on this site already) they get overused and either their meaning gets warped, lost or cliched and meaningless. A few comedians chimed in on this subject:

Dom Irrerra: the phrase, "with all due respect" you know that something derogatory is about to be spoken about whoever that phrase is intended for. "with all due respect, your mother is a ______, but I'm saying it with all due respect, so it's okay."

A southern comedian who I just saw and can't remember his name...he's from South Carolina I believe. the phrase, "bless her heart" you know that something derogatory is about to be said about the subject of that sentence. "bless her heart she's such an ugly child."

And then there's the "I'd like to thank God" speak that any victorious athlete or award winning entertainer uses in his or her victory speech. Is he or she saying that God wanted you to win and everybody else to lose? How shallow. I won't even get started on that one, because I would probably bust a gasket. And yes, I just used one of those phrases. lol

But if the ends justified the means someone owes me a few more wrestling medals for high school and couple more first prize finishes in the parade my family participates in. We meant well, practiced and prepared well and spent well, but the ends certainly didn't justify them. lol

Ends justify the means...you get what you paid for...you get what you deserve I guess all mean about the same thing. But I'd certainly bet that both the winning and the losing side in any type of conflict could argue convincing that the ends did or didn't justifiy the means.

Again, just my opinion. I could be wrong. It's happened before.

Bart