Regimental colors question

[bama_belle]

Steven,

My husband sends his thanks for the link, as do I.

I have learned so much for the short time I have been here and am thankful that I found this place!

belle

[scone]

Bama Belle,
you and your Husband are most welcome : )


Shane or anyone else,
Have you heard of any other other accounts like that of Charles Day who one his MOH by after he "seized the colors of another regiment of the brigade, the regiment having been thrown into confusion and the color bearer killed, and bore said colors throughout the remainder of the engagement."

I find it very interesting that another unit would so close to someone elses colors..

[texaswildcat]

Yes, scone, we have.

ADAMS, JOHN G. B.
Rank and organization: Second Lieutenant, Company I, 19th Massachusetts Infantry. Place and date: At Fredericksburg, Va., 13 December 1862. Entered service at: ------. Birth: Groveland, Mass. Date of issue: 16 December 1896. Citation: Seized the 2 colors from the hands of a corporal and a lieutenant as they fell mortally wounded, and with a color in each hand advanced across the field to a point where the regiment was reformed on those colors.

[johan_steele]

Originally Posted by scone

I find it very interesting that another unit would so close to someone elses colors..

Steve, it wasn't unusual for units to become intermingled in an assult, or a rout as just two examples. I'm tempted to say I remember a couple of members of the Iron Brigade getting mixed up at Antietem and a man from one Regt picking up the colors from the other when the color bearer fell.

[nbforrest]

I've read several times of one regiment bringing the flag of another regiment off the field.
Wasn't something like that the source of controversy with an Iron Brigade outfit and some New York regiment at Antietam? I remember it from Blue and Gray.
Might be the same incident you are describing.

Respectfully

[texaswildcat]

nbforrest, I have looked and found no mention of the Iron Brigade or a New York carrying off the others colors, but i'll look into it further to see. Also, I have read during the final assault on Petersburg, that the colors of the 21st Massachusetts were recaptured by a colonel in the 1st Michigan Infantry

[johan_steele]

I recently read an account of Antietem which also mentions members of the Iron Brigade rescuing the colors of a NY Regiment. IIRC the colors were still in the possession of the NY men but the unit had been decimated and was in no condition to carry them from the field. THe color beared died but not before passing the colors onto a Iron Brigade man insuring their safety.

I've done a lot of skimming looking for some items on the Iron Brigade and the only reason I remember it at all was that it caought my eye... Anyone else ever read such a thing?

[samgrant]

This is mostly in reply to the first 3 posts of this thread.

These are bits from Gerald Prokopowicz' All For the Regiment (a fine book by the way). They are obviously oriented to the Union army. [in these brackets are bits inserted by me from various sources]

"battle flags ... were among the few visual landmarks available during the battle.

Most Federal regiments carried two, a national flag (the "Stars and Stripes") and a regimental flag, which was usually a variation of the unit's state flag with the name of the regiment prominently added.

These ... served the practical purpose of identifying the regiment and indicating the center of the line. ... men could use the flags to orient themselves within their regimental formations. ...

The flags were usually professionally made and purchased by the regiment by funds raised by local citizens, although in some communities women made the flags by hand. ...

The symbolic value of these flags was increased by recording on them the names of the regiment's battles ...

Flags were so important that soldiers competed for the honor of belonging to the regimental color guard, eight men who carried or marched next to the flags in combat, in spite of the fact that the flags' visibility ensured a high volume of enemy fire. [At Chaplin Hills, six color-bearers of the Third Ohio were shot down in succession, At Shiloh the regiment (18th Illinois) lost three color-bearers killed in succession, 7th Missouri Infantry losing six color-bearers killed in quick succession at Vicksburg, For the Thirty-fourth Illinois , at Shiloh, it was five color bearers falling in quick succession, at Jackson Mississsppi, regimental flag of the Forty-first ... was shot down five times, the color bearer being killed each time. Sergeant H. M. Strearer, who carried the National colors of the Forty-first, was severely wounded, but he carried the flag, torn and tattered, in triumph off the field.] ...

The flag was to the regiment what the church spire was to the town: physical landmark, symbol of community, and source of inspiration."

As to Shane's contention that "As the war progressed many Union Regiments stopped carrying their state colors and carried only the National.", this does not ring true to me, but it may have been so as those locally organized regiments may have been decimated by attrition, and were filled out with 'strangers'; that the flag no longer symbolized the bond between the regiment and its place of origin(?).

As of February 1862, following the lead of individual regiments, the War Department issued General Orders No. 19, which ordered regiments to inscribe the names of their battles on their flags: http://moa.cit.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/m...IF&pagenum=898

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[johan_steele]

Originally Posted by samgrant

This is mostly in reply to the first 3 posts of this thread.



As to Shane's contention that "As the war progressed many Union Regiments stopped carrying their state colors and carried only the National.", this does not ring true to me, but it may have been so as those locally organized regiments may have been decimated by attrition, and were filled out with 'strangers'; that the flag no longer symbolized the bond between the regiment and its place of origin(?).

In my original post some may have been a more apt word than many. As you probably know most of my real knowledge of the ACW is on the arms & the western boys. the specific reference I was alluding to dealt specifically w/ the AoT. W/ some western regiments reduceed to a couple of hundred men by the last year and a half of the war I can see why a battered flag might be retired and not replaced. Many US regiments went through a dozen flags during the war. which is why sometimes three and four flags for the same regiment still exist begging to be restored. as to how many were carrying only one flag? I would think only those regiments reduced to a battalion and the reference may only have been dealing w/ a regient that might have left their regimental flag in garrison.
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Excellent post Sam, thank you.

[samgrant]

Shane,

I was hoping you might clarify that, and it seems to be a reasonable explanation.

I just wonder where one might find evidence that the regimental colors were not carried as much later in the war.
I expect that at the very end, the Siege of Petersburg/Richmond, for example, the colors might have lost their practical/functional utility.

But I wonder if the vets got so grizzled in the end that they lost their pride and attachment to the colors that represented themselves, their fallen comrades, and their home folks. I'd like to think not.

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