Sherman's March to the Sea

[thea_447]

I will have to search through my books and find passages that I have quoted on these boards about Northerners buying up the Georgia forests and stripping the land, but it will take some time.

I will give you this partial quote from something I wrote on the Reconstruction thread on 11-20-2003:

Frank Conner, author of "The South Under Siege 1830-2000" wrote: "In 1865, Congressman Thaddeus Stevens and Senator Charles Sumner created the Joint Committee on Reconstruction. Under its aegis they developed a long-range master plan for impoverishing, subjugating, dominating, and humiliating the Southerners, while destroying their culture and brainwashing them into third-rate copies of the Northerners." Conner notes the main objectives of this ideological war. They are: "(1) to discredit white Southerners; (2) and thereby discredit Southern Christianity; (3) which would clear the way for them to discredit Christianity throughout the United States; and (4) replace it with their own religion of secular humanism as the official religion of the U.S."

Mr. Conner has noted some of the more degrading aspects of the "reconstruction." He writes: Although many ex-Confederates owned no clothes but the patched uniforms they had been wearing at the surrender, it was now unlawful for them to wear those clothes. They had to cut off all the buttons stamped 'CSA' and to fasten their clothes as best they could with pieces of string. Ex-Confederate parolees had to carry their paroles on their persons at all times, and display them to any U.S. soldier upon demand. Woe unto any Southerner who displayed--under any circumstances at all--a Confederate flag or any other symbol of the Confederacy; he would be arrested immediately." (edited today: Someone else would accomplish this type humiliation in Germany when he forced the Jews to wear the Star of David on their clothing.)

"Reconstruction" in the South after the war was intended to tax what little was left in the South, to put the South under Northern military rule and fill all the political offices with Northern carpetbaggers and their friends, to make sure the blacks got the vote and to make sure they all continued to vote Republican so the pillage could continue as long as possible.

So this "phoenix" rising from the ashes was due to Northerners, carpetbaggers and others, but not Southerners. And it remained this way for many many years to come. To this day in Georgia, people identify certain people from their heritage that long ago as the "nouveau riche".

[unionblue]

Thea,

Discredit Southern Christianty? Replace it with their own secular humanism as the official US religion? Please refer me to a period document or speech where Lincoln or any other person in power in the North declared this as an official war aim of the Union.

I read that statement as nothing but a modern-day, agenda-ridden, clap-trap and no serious attempt at explaining history. The book has a web site with 'supporters' being listed that are entirely Southern partisan in nature and could not be considered an unbiased or unslanted or even fair representation on a drug-induced day.

http://collards/phantacom.net/b001a.htm

I also found a listing for the book at Amazon.com which lists its price at $125.00 'one new and used.' It is also been given the Amazon.com sales rank of 2,024,359 in books.

I take it then that if a Southern Soldier or citizen was required to take off his 'csa' buttons or was prohibitted from displaying the Confederate flag, you, or I should say the author of this comment, consider this treatment on a par with that of a Jewish person being forced to wear a yellow star in Hitler's Germany?

I must admit all sorts of rebuttals come to mind, like could the author please provide how many Southern soldiers were cartted off to death camps and gassed for being Southern or not taking off the 'csa' buttons?

And since it is now alright to compare Southern soldiers with presecuted Jews, then I take it no one will have any problems with the comparison of those Southern soldiers with German soldiers who simply obyed their government and supported their war aims (slavery/extermination) even thought they owned no slaves or had nothing against the Jews?

Unionblue

Neil,
I know of at least one factual story of a man imprisioned for wearing grey. It occured here in Tennessee. He had no clothes nor home as both had been burned. He was little more than a beggar when the Reconstruction Army seized and arrested him because he was wearing the ragged Confederate Uniform Coat. After weeks in jail he was finally released but only because a Union soldier gave him an old Union outfit to wear. Otherwise he'd have stayed there til he died I guess. You can find this story somewhere on the web but no idea where. I have t in a book but not sure which one.


And have you forgotten Neil. The South is already being compared to German and Japanese soldier. MacPherson made sure of that. So it must be ok to do so. But I see not similarities. They were not an army of Conquest but of Defending the homeland. As I'm sure you recall, in both campaigns into the north, many southrons stopped at the border and refused to 'attack' another country. None of those soldiers were charged with deserting though.

[unionblue]

Tommy,

Agreed, and I even find your story concerning the jailing of a Confederate soldier being jailed convincing. It more than likely happened. I do recall Confederate soldiers having their buttons cut off by Union troops and having to use thorns to close their coast against the cold.

However to compare him with a Jew in Hitler's Germany doesn't go anywhere with me. Another level of violence entirely and a stupid call for an ignorant comparison. The idea of a German SS guard helping a Jew get better conditions or clothing just doesn't seem like a typical action of the period.

As for the idea of being compared to German and Japanese soldiers, I just recall the backlash from that comparison and now this one is supposed to slide on by without comment? Just returning by the same set of rules as I see it.

I am also aware of the incident of Southern soldiers stopping at Southern borders and refusing to fight in the North by was of invasion, as they had all been informed they were fighting only in defense of their country. Hence the argument of if the South was willing to invade the North to meet its military objectives, etc. Most of the men who refused to go North made claims their shoes had worn out, but in reality they had hidden them so they would not have to comply with what they considered an unlawful order.

Unionblue

[ole]

Goodness, folks, we're starting to choke on gnats and swallow camels here. Yah, but.

Without a doubt, Sherman's march inflicted a very major setback on the southern economy. Also doubtless is the fact that the war was shortened a goodly number of months by his action. How many lives and fortune were spared further devastation cannot be calculated. I believe that the south would eventually have experienced the same devastation if Sherman hadn't marched to the sea. It would just have taken longer with a commensurate loss of life.

And what was Sherman to do? Wait in Atlanta for Grant to reduce Petersburg and take Richmond? Nope. A rule of war is to take and keep the initiative. Don't allow the opposition to dictate terms. Force them to assume the defensive. Dictate the terms of engagement.

Also, Unionblue, it might be expected that SOME CSA soldiers would refuse to cross the Potomac as that would be an invasion and outside their reason for fighting. More than most did cross. That some did not is a gnat. That most did is our camel.

Abuse of Confederate Veterans is also a gnat. Regrettable. Outrageous. What might one expect? (Take a thousand men, a certain percentage deserve to be hung. What else is new?)

There is nothing to the comparison of the Northern or Southern Forces with German and Japanese atrocities during WWII. Different time. Different conditions. Different reasons. Although the Japanese invasion of China might fit within Thea's definition of "total war." Or, Hitler's invasion of Russia.

War, all war, sucks. Big time. But we haven't yet found a satisfactory alternative. So we are bound to the devil we know until we actually find a better way. "Might makes right" is alive and well and living somewhere north of Richmond.

I could be wrong.

Ole

[unionblue]

To All,

Found out something when checking a few things out on the web. Something I did not know about Sherman's march to the sea campaign.

Sherman communicated a peace offer to Gov. Joseph Brown of Georgia three times, using 3 separate men to be sure Brown heard the offer. Surrender the state and Sherman's troops will stay on the roads and pay for food needed for The March to the Sea. Brown considered the offer and apparently only rejected it when Jefferson Davis personally pointed out that 50 years ago no less of a general than Napoleon was soundly defeated in a similar situation, outside the gates of Moscow.

I was not aware of Sherman's offer to Gov. Brown.

Unionblue

[ole]

Whoo! Unionblue:

If that's true, and it has the ring of it, there's to be considerable soul-searching.

Where did you find that?

[unionblue]

Ole,

Found it on the North Georgia web site giving a history of the area.

Unionblue

[larry_cockerham]

Gov. Brown was no genius, as he proved time after time.

[johan_steele]

It' also mentioned in Hitch****'s account of the March to the Sea. I have read that Gov Brown never forgave Davis...