CivilWarTalk.com - A free and friendly Civil War community.
CivilWarTalk.com
The Dispatch Depot at Civil War Talk  

Go Back   The Dispatch Depot at Civil War Talk > The Haversack - Special Features & Discussions > Book & Movie Review Tent
Register FAQ Members List Chat Calendar Mark Forums Read

Book & Movie Review Tent Post a book review, or discuss your favorite period movie.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-15-2008, 10:20 PM
Blockaderunner's Avatar
Corporal (250+ posts)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Northumberland, England
Posts: 307
Default Ken Burns and Gettysburg

Not sure if this little bit of trivia has been posted before. Ken Burns appears in the movie Gettysburg. He is one of Hancocks staff officers who shouts "General get down, we cannot spare you!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gettysburg_%28film%29
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-16-2008, 02:32 AM
M E Wolf's Avatar
Sergeant (500+ posts)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 605
Default

Dear Blockaderunner;

If you have a chance to look at the 'behind the scene' feature, Ken Burns having made his Civil War film -- he was struck as to how loud those cannons were live. He added that he could only imagine how they would sound fully charged and armed.

IF Mr. Shaara and Mr. Ron Maxwell ever do get the money to finance the last trilogy film - The Last Full Measure; I'm sure it will be interesting on how General Longstreet will appear having been wounded and his right hand useless. He was right handed and now it was limp--he had to learn how to write with his left hand.

Be interesting to see of Robert Todd Lincoln makes it to the staff of General Grant in the movie also.

I did notice that some horses were used on double duty. General Longstreet's horse was used by Col. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain. The horse used by Captain Spear was used by General John Bell "Sam" Hood;
The horse used by Col. Devin (Union Cavalry and not very cooperative) was also ridden by Lt. Tom Chamberlain. The same horse that was used for falling behind the Union Cavalry lines, is the same horse used for falling at the Confederate's approach on Chambersburg Pike by General Buford's artillery. I "think" it is also the same horse ridden by Capt Goree on Longstreet's staff. General Reynold's horse at the approach to the Seminary where Reynold's asks Buford, hows it going- Buford reply'ing 'There is a Devil to pay' -- Is a different horse than what he rides into his death scene. The horse at the Buford exchange is also ridden by Major Taylor, on Lee's Staff.

Can you tell I am keen on horses? [Chuckles]

Just some thoughts.

M. E. Wolf
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-16-2008, 12:39 PM
larry_cockerham's Avatar
1st Lt. (3500+ posts)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Nashville
Posts: 3,708
Default

Bro Wolf, you're quite observant and obviously a very effective teacher. Many of us older folks are both enjoying and learning from your various posts. Please continue!
__________________
Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-16-2008, 12:42 PM
Blockaderunner's Avatar
Corporal (250+ posts)
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Northumberland, England
Posts: 307
Default

Well, I have to say I would never have noticed the horses doubling up.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-17-2008, 05:06 PM
mt155's Avatar
Private (25+ posts)
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Clear Lake, Texas
Posts: 136
Default

I've always been busy looking for the same explosion from a different camera angle or a necklace or watch. Who would have thought to look at the horses. I know good mounts were hard to find as the war wore on and I have heard the stories of yanks and rebs trading for coffee and tobacco while on picket, but I had no idea that they lent out their horses when they themselves were not using them, incredible!(wink wink, nudge nudge)!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 03-18-2008, 01:28 PM
M E Wolf's Avatar
Sergeant (500+ posts)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 605
Default

Dear Mt155,

Well, now that you mention watches -- One of the Confederate chaps in the row greeting Lee (hand out and trying to touch Sheen as Lee) you can see the tan line and the outline of a wrist-watch on a reenactor.

Lee is wearing a wedding band in the movie--yet, in all of his portraits he never wore one.

And if you really want to be nitty gritty... Sam Elliott's wedding band tan line is faintly present in the picture at which looking into field glasses. It seems that was caught and that hand wasn't exposed further to camera view.

Movies are wonderful aren't they?

Notice the box van peeling down the road, as Buford is discussing with Col. Devin the field in front of them? Pan shot--you can see the van moving out of view and a dust cloud.

Another 'little tid bit'---In the Cavalry, the horse was taught to lay down and stay put, even under fire. Re-enactors haven't really had the ability to find good trainers as to help put their horses down by command. Another tid bit, military horses from Europe and transposed over to the US Cavalry--trained their horses to kick out on command. So, if enemies tried to approach..the horse would kick out. Horse kicks will kill a person.
Mules are even more deadly. The head, was also used as a club in the Cavalry. Flick of the reins and a horse could swing their head left or right. Most horses were controlled by the seat of the rider so the hands were free to shoot a rifle from the saddle and or have saber in one, revolver in another into a charge. Again, the re-enactors if they had the ability of trainers that I had -- Ex US Cavalry an old Major Lynch who taught at Morvin Park, VA (Leesburg, VA)--He taught us old Cavalry equestrian arts.

Try sitting on your tailbone with hands and legs up like some ridiculous spider at a trot--that was for balance. No reins or grip..just our tailbone and balance. Jumping over jumps in succession lighting a cigarette with a match. And, yes--riding backwards facing the tail and also turning in all directions on the back of a moving horse. He was the last of the Cavalry and taught me, and others well.

If you read old accounts of the 'bridle hand' it means the left hand. Cavalry was very strict about keeping the right hand free. You'll see in the movie, a lot of people are guiding the horse with their right. It would be ok if at a casual situation but, not in battle situations.

To support the training of the Cavalry horse and man; the many stories of officers with their arm missing still leading battle charges. A lot of control was in the rider's seat and weight shifts. This freed the hands for battle. Known as Dressage now days--the ancient art of battle on a horse was and is still rooted in Dressage which means Training. These horses are trained to do natural movement on command and those movements for nature's flight or fight has been adapted for combat. Muted versions have found their way to the modern police horse. But, after the Cavalry was made mechanic--the war horse's training has nearly disappeared.

In Japan, their Cavalry, they had to be at a full gallop and be able to shot a bow and arrow as they rode and hit the target.

I 'heard' that when Major Lynch was in the US Cavalry, which represented the USA in the 1960's Olympics and civilians were not permitted at first--especially women; in his day--they had to target practice at a walk, trot, canter and gallop. Horses had to pass tests also, so they had to stand still under fire and lay down and stay still as bullets wizzing by and their rider returning fire using their saddle to steady their aim, etc.

I trained an Appaloosa to lay down on command. It was the only way a disabled man could ride--both legs useless. So, horse laid down, he move his leg over the saddle, hold the horn and commanded the horse to get up and the horse would move him and himself up.
If you want to 'get an idea' on what this is like--get on your bed, get a sleeping bag roll and kneel on right knee and sling left over the sleeping bag. That is how you fought with the cavalry horse down on command. Feet still in the stirrups. Then when it was time to get out- command given the horse would roll to the right, you pushed up on right foot and then when the horse lurched up you used the saddle to hold on and you're off. Sounds easy but, it takes practice!, practice! and more practice! (We trained in sand so we didn't get hurt). Oh--horses laid on both sides--so if you want to kneel on the left knee and use the right leg over the sleeping bag--not a problem. [Smiles]

Just some personal memories--not meaning to brag--just so much knowledge is lost and for re-enactors, they are cheated by some really wonderful tactics in my opinion.

Just some thoughts.

M. E. Wolf

Last edited by M E Wolf : 03-18-2008 at 02:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-18-2008, 05:20 PM
M E Wolf's Avatar
Sergeant (500+ posts)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 605
Default

Dear List Members,

Not sure if anybody would be interested however, I don't see references to the Caparison Horse yet instantly recognized -- curious now?

The Caparison Horse is the fully saddled, formally and greatly decorated horse, that is riderless. Boots are affixed backwards in the stirrups.

This practice has rooots back to antiquity. The Ornamentally covered horse symbolized the ancient custom of sacrificing a horse of the warror's at the warrior's buriel. This signified that the warrior had fallen and would never ride again. In the times of Genghis Khan (Mongolians) and Tamerlane (Tartars) that sacrificing the horse, the horse's spirit would follow the Master's into the hearafter and or after world. Tradition allows a Caparison Horseto follow the casket of either Army or Marine, Colonel and ranks above and Presidents.

Another tradition in military funerals that have old roots --The Practice evolved where there would be a custom of truce and both armies would go and get their wounded and dead off the battlefield. The first army that finished would fire a volley. The second army when they were finished shot a volley also. In acknowledgment--the first army would fire off a volley and this signaled it was back to the task of battle and war.

During the Civil War, shooting volleys three times became unsafe. It was then when the use of "TAPS" in lieu of the three volleys came into use and the custom quickly spread through the Army of the Potomac and became official orders later. Now "Taps" is due to the drummer playing the tune, as a bugler would not be as often able to play this on his bugel.

With the assistance of his brigade bugler, Brig. General Butterfield created "Taps" on the back of an envelope. The bugler transposed the notes as to be readable by any musician. It was to replace the more formal 'Tattoo' which, to Butterfield was formal and colorless. The call was officially adopted by the US Army in 1864.

The Caisson during the Civil War, often became the makeshift ambulance for the armies. This carried over in burial ceremonies. The 'formal' caisson during funerals would have been six horses in their full turnout. Riders mounted on the left side, the right horses carrying food, feed and provisions for that artillery piece.

The folded flag was not adopted until 1918. The flag however, draped over caskets and caissons was a practice for centuries.

Oh, and for my Gone with the Windbuffs -- the horse Ashley Wilkes rode off on, was a three (3) gaited Saddlebred horse--named Anacacho Rebel a champion show horse.

Enjoy!

Sincerely,
M. E. Wolf
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-19-2008, 12:08 AM
mt155's Avatar
Private (25+ posts)
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Clear Lake, Texas
Posts: 136
Default

Your knowledge of horse is amazing. You need to get your own show on animal planet. Keep up with your posts talking to this subject. I am learning more and more everyday.

Mike T.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-19-2008, 05:29 PM
M E Wolf's Avatar
Sergeant (500+ posts)
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Virginia
Posts: 605
Default

Dear Mike T/Mt155,

I rather be with those who study the American Civil War, Revolutionary War and other historical battles, to include Europe.

I do believe Europe was the 'craddle' of equestrian art of war. They did have a huge head start.

In 1839 Phil Kearny (to be later recognized in the Civil War), with two other cavalry officers were sent by the US Army as well as then the Secretary of War, to France to study French Army Cavalry tactics. As most may recall, French Napoleonic war tactics was taught in the West Point and Virginia Military Institute and why French was required language. Even General George S. Patton of WWII--had studied French and Napoleon War tactics. Now, getting back to Phil Kearny--he took the Courses in French Practice and served in the French Army in Algeria. He returned back to the US and wrote "A System of Cavalry Tactics" molded on French Practices. It was the US Army's official manual for over 20 years. In 1841 it was revised and renamed Poinsett Tactics. That then became the basis for the manuals in 1861. In addition, in 1851 -- then Secretary of War Jeff Davis (who would later be the President of the Confederate States of America) sent Col. George B. McClellan, Maj. Delafield and Maj. Mordecai to Europe to 'get up to speed' on military tactics. However, they went all over Europe--not consentrated on France alone.

Anyway, in summary -- our "Cavalry" had it's root principle and philosophy from European beginnings. However, in the Civil War -- our Cavalry on both sides created new tactics and adaptability, even training. This is why perhaps former officers of the Civil War were courted to 'teach' Europeans new tactics -- not just Cavalry but in other areas also.

Anyway, I do thank you so very much for your kindness and appreciation to the knowledge I have acquired over my life time. But, in all honesty--I had good teachers. Horses, equestrian Masters of a different era and those who were patient with a sprout. I think I was like young George S. Patton listening to John S. Mosby (CSA Ranger) and learning tactics, the horse, the equipment and problem solving.

Did you know a horse has exactly the same amount of bones in their body as we humans? With one exception - The Arabian which has one less vertebra.

The horse does not wear the same size horse shoe on all four hooves. Front hoofs are one size larger than the back. Weight of the horse is naturally forward. This is why soldiers had to carry two horse shoes--one for back and one for front hoofs. This practice was maintained in the US Cavalry until horse Cavalry units were disbanded, with the exception of ceremonial horse groups.

Respectfully,
M. E. Wolf
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-19-2008, 06:36 PM
timewalker's Avatar
Corporal (250+ posts)
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Flower Mound, Texas
Posts: 488
Default

So, Mr. Wolf, when can we expect your book on Horses and Cavalry Tactics in the Civil War. I'd buy a copy.
__________________
"There must be more historians of the Civil War than there were generals figthing in it... Of the two groups, the historians are the more belligerent." David Donald, Lincoln Reconsidered (1961)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
So how accurately did the Ken Burns documentary get the history of the war lastcat3 Civil War History - General Discussion 31 05-18-2008 04:47 AM
BURNS, William Wallace USA Mark Wadsworth Terms beginning with the letter: B 0 08-29-2007 04:45 PM
6 Months Ago I Bought PBS Ken Burns "The Civil War" on DVD muzzleloader Campfire Chat - General Discussions 9 03-22-2006 10:23 PM
Tallassee, Ala. Historical Building Burns Alabaman Campfire Chat - General Discussions 0 01-06-2006 06:48 PM
Not really CW - Arsonist burns Cedar Bucket scone The Mason-Dixon Gazette 0 06-28-2005 01:39 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0
Back to top
Bringing the American Civil War to Life. Copyright © 1999 - 2008, CivilWarTalk.com.
Site Design Version 4.2. - Website powered by Subdreamer CMS
The American Civil War | Forum | Resource Center | Image Gallery | Links | Site Map | XML | Donations