The Militant South

[larry_cockerham]

Hang on big guy! While frightfully intertwined, slavery and racism are actually two ever so slightly different things. Slavery would have been greatly reduced by mechanization. Racism as you well know was another matter.

[larry_cockerham]

Neil wrote:

"Larry, racisms bubble burst in the 1950s? Tensions got a bit out of hand? I'm glad nothing serious happened in Watts, Chicago, Little Rock, Selma, and Washington D.C. during that long hot summer thing during the 60's! I'm afraid your timing is a bit off on this one."

I wasn't in any of the towns you mentioned, though I did watch televison a lot from 1955 on. Serious is in the eyes of the beholder and the guy receiving the seriousness. There were several 'long hot summers' in the 60s. The bubble that burst to initiate all that popped in the 1950s when the returning WWII soldiers discovered that they really were equal to other races and decided to press their point on the buses, in restaurants (never could spell that word), neighborhoods, schools and at the jobsite. Worse than when the Italians met the Irish up north?

[ole]

Had devoted about an hour in response. sounded like drivel. Deleted same.
Ole

[larry_cockerham]

Ole, I assume our prior rambling must have impacted you (not in a bowell-related sense). Hopefully it was more or less thought provoking and perhaps positive. If that is not the case, I'm sure you'll let us know.

[unionblue]

Larry,

The picture you presented is just a bit too simple, in my own opinion. Returning WWII veterans (and I am assuming you mean black veterans) may have realized they were just as good as any other man, but they still had a long way to go to get the same opportunities as every other man. The bubble did not burst, it just started getting some of its first pin *****s.

There was no racial violence in my little corner of Ohio during the 60s, but that is not to say this country did not have a real crisis on its social hands either.

Race is still one of the most vexing problems we face in this country, although I am of the opinion it is not as bad as it once was, what with a black man and a woman seriously considered for President, it still is an issue no matter how we wish it was not.

This racial problem stems directly from the Civil War and slavery. Slavery had it's roots in this country long before the war, but this is where we stand because of the war, good and bad.

Unionblue

[samgrant]

Originally Posted by unionblue

samgrant,

Yep, that's the one.

And I have heard the Civil War Talk Radio interview with the author. That's why I have already advanced ordered the book.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

The book arrived yesterday, so I'll start it next.

I found a thing on eBay offering his book and after checking if it was a advanced proof, etc. ordered it on 03-05. it arrrived on 03-08! Turned out to be legit.

Seems to be well sourced with about 96 pages of citations, and another 22 pages listing sources.

This guy must work at the book factory?

For anyone interested:

http://cgi.ebay.com/What-This-Cruel-...QQcmdZViewItem

[larry_cockerham]

Neil, reproduction appears to be nearing an end as well as the Confederacy now that the censor has protected us from p$r$i$c$k$s.

Pardon me, please I'm still waking up from last evening's basketball victory by my Wolfpack.

You wrote: "Race is still one of the most vexing problems we face in this country, although I am of the opinion it is not as bad as it once was, what with a black man and a woman seriously considered for President, it still is an issue no matter how we wish it was not.

This racial problem stems directly from the Civil War and slavery. Slavery had it's roots in this country long before the war, but this is where we stand because of the war, good and bad."

I wholeheartedly agree with the first paragraph above, except the part about the woman, but that's a discussion for another place perhaps. Maybe it's just THIS woman.

I must abstain from acceptance of your second paragraph above. The Civil War didn't start slavery as you well know. That little money making scheme had been going on for centuries with far more folks involved than most of us could imagine. Slavery's roots were back on the east side of the Atlantic long before our native Americans were ever introduced to the subject, though they seemed to have had their own versions of the game. Your blaming our social progress, or lack thereof, on the Civil War never ceases to concern me. Why can't you just look at it as a good friendly deadly brawl among friends, brothers, cousins and a few invading yanks and rebellious southern gentlemen? That's what developed from what may have been an orchestrated effort to manage the conflict for monetary gain. Much financial gain was to be had by folks in the right places on both geographic sides of the battle lines. Follow the dollars and you'll find the skunk. That remains so today. Black vs white vs red vs yellow and today perhaps pink, is nothing new under the sun. The Civil War didn't cause it.

[unionblue]

Larry,

I'm sorry to disagree with you, truly I am, but I consider looking to any other reason for the CW other than the primary idea of white supremecy and slavery just plain wrong.

It's dodging a historical wrong and playing fast and loose with history. It's just a social version of sticking our collective heads in the sand and hoping this part of history will just go away.

You judged me right, I CAN'T let it go and assume it's something it's not.

But as you have also guessed, it's me and my opinion on the subject.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

[larry_cockerham]

Neil, my yankee/slightly southern friend, you are a most pleasant disagreeable lad, to say the least. I salute your support of your slightly biased and not totally correct opinion. If everyone looked at this world the same way, the war would never have happened. That would perhaps have been a disservice to mankind. Wars have their purpose, whatever it is. For a while, I'd like permission to occasionally interject the truthful exceptions to your tightly held views. Some of the folks on this board are impressionable and not as hard-headed as some of us. Telling me that slavery was the reason my Grandpa went to war, or worse yet that he was fighting consciously to support or aid that notion, is going to remain a challenge. With all due respect to you, Sir. Long may your blinder driven view persist if that is what you truly believe. You say it is. I respect that. I, for one, am still not convinced.

[ole]

Racism and slavery have been with us since before man quit using his knuckles as a walking aid. Some believed it to be God's will. Others disagreed. Then it got confusing.
Ole