General wisdom tells us that WWI laid the seeds for WWII and the other ill of the 20th century. Many believe Pres. Wilson ended the war to soon and this is the stone left unturned the leads to all the other ills from WWI.
The Germans never accepted the fact they lost the war for the German army was still in France when the armistice was signed. In the 1920's Hitler use this one little fact to stir up Nationalism and blame the left for Germany's losing the war. He rode this fact into being a Chancellor and to discredit any opposition from the left.
It is said it would have taken One Million American lives not counting the French or British lives to push the German army all the way back to Berlin and total defeat.
If the Germans would have experienced total defeat their would have been no Hitler and Germany would not have been the catalyst of WWII. They would have been humble by their defeat just as the Confederacy was and as Japan and Germany were from WWII.
The question is: Should America have lost One million lives and pushed Germany into total defeat and avoid the ills form WWI?
Knowing the history of the 20th century would you have order our army forward or taken the Armistice?
Up to the challenge.....
__________________
"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
General wisdom tells us that WWI laid the seeds for WWII and the other ill of the 20th century. Many believe Pres. Wilson ended the war to soon and this is the stone left unturned the leads to all the other ills from WWI.
In my opinion the problem was not the early armstice, but too harsh terms of the peace treaty in Versailles, 1919. Germans were humilated & enraged by those terms: severe military restrictions, territorial concessions, full responsibility for the war (in reality they were not alone to blame), reparations...
Another problem was lack of reaction from world powers when Germany violated some of the terms: in 1922 they began to train soldiers (pilots too) in Soviet territory and build & test weapons there, although they were disallowed to have aircraft, tanks, anti-tank or anti-aircraft guns; in 1935 Germans introduced compulsory military conscription, though the peace treaty prohibited it; they also created their armed forces anew, which was also against the terms. The world didn't object to those arrangements, making Germans audacious and eager for more.
Difficult to say. Any historical 'what-if' which precludes the rise of Hitler is difficult to argue against!
The problem is that the changes were afoot in Europe and those societies were seeking ways to adapt to those changes. In the Soviet Union, there was a shift towards Bolshevism. In Germany/Italy we saw a shift to Fascism (but there was a large leftist movement in Germany, there was no guarantee the Fascists would win).
If you push on to Berlin during WWI, does this stamp out militarism in Germany? Does this lead to leftists taking charge in Germany that, if aligned with the Soviet Union could've formed a bloc sufficient to do to Western Europe what Hitler did?
You might 'spend' those million lives and not get the return you were looking for....
In my opinion the problem was not the early armstice, but too harsh terms of the peace treaty in Versailles, 1919. Germans were humilated & enraged by those terms: severe military restrictions, territorial concessions, full responsibility for the war (in reality they were not alone to blame), reparations...
Another problem was lack of reaction from world powers when Germany violated some of the terms: in 1922 they began to train soldiers (pilots too) in Soviet territory and build & test weapons there, although they were disallowed to have aircraft, tanks, anti-tank or anti-aircraft guns; in 1935 Germans introduced compulsory military conscription, though the peace treaty prohibited it; they also created their armed forces anew, which was also against the terms. The world didn't object to those arrangements, making Germans audacious and eager for more.
I agree the treaty of Versailles was another thing that led to Hitlers rise but my argument is when a nation or rebellion is completely crushed as the Confederacy or the Axis powers of WWII, they are completely humble. The militarism in the society is completely discredited and the population for generations wants to avoid conflict.
If we would have marched to Berlin there would have been on treaty of Versailles only unconditional surrender and the German people would have felt beaten just as the army would have.
The end of militarism in Germany like what happen after WWII in Germany.
Would had been worth a million American lives??
__________________
"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
I agree the treaty of Versailles was another thing that led to Hitlers rise but my argument is when a nation or rebellion is completely crushed as the Confederacy or the Axis powers of WWII, they are completely humble. The militarism in the society is completely discredited and the population for generations wants to avoid conflict.
I see your point.
I think that the German nation was already crushed before the armstice was discussed. Soldiers didn't want to fight no more, society didn't support the war. They were defeated and not bellicose at all. So further bloodshed was unnecessary.
Quote:
The end of militarism in Germany like what happen after WWII in Germany.
I believe that German militarism that led to WW2 was not a continuation of the militarism preceding WW1.
It is difficult to say if the Allies had fought until the German army had been pushed back into Germany that WWII may have not happened. Remember Britain and France were "bled white" as they said at the time. How much fight they had left in them was suspect. I agree that the Treaty of Versailles was too harsh on Germany which fermented hatred against the Allies. Defeatism had set in for France and Britain as they had several opportunities to stop Germany before September 1, 1939. When Hitler marched into the Rhineland, made the Anschluss, and seized the Sudetenland they could have stopped the Germans. By waiting until Poland was invaded Germany had become stronger and the Russians were on the sidelines. I voted no.
__________________ "Those who forget to remember the past are condemned to repeat it", George Santayana.
1. This discussion belongs under "general discussion."
2. No mechanism for voiting.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
1. This discussion belongs under "general discussion."
2. No mechanism for voting.
ole
I have move this thread to a post under the WWI topic in Campfire chat. I have tried to delete it but the system will not let me.. So Mod gods please either lock this thread or delete...thanks!
__________________
"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
The Ballot Box is off limits to the mortal mods. Will be passing your request to the mod gods.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
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