Was General Meade Too Lax Pursuing General Lee's Retreat from Gettysburg?

[cw1865]

Originally Posted by OpnDownfall

The AoP was Never going to defeat the ANV without fighting..

100% correct

Originally Posted by OpnDownfall

It is obvious from the historical record and Meade's own words that he had no intention of engaging Lee and the ANV in a battle of any kind, if he could help it.
Laxness was not the problem, Lee escaped becaujse Meade (and his officer corps) wanted him to escape, preferably without fighting.
As far as Meade was concerned, he had accomplished his goals (though not Lincolns or the Nations') when Lee retreated back into Va.

I'm taking 'lax' question of the thread to mean, should Meade have been more aggresive and made the assault at Williamsport? I answer, yes.

[OpnDownfall]

I agree,Meade needed to be much more aggressive than he felt he needed to be.

[Dred]

He gained control of an army on the move, devised an excellent strategy to force an atttack on ground he chose, altered his plans as events unfolded (first union general that didn't panick as soon as things started going differently) soundly whipped the ANV (first commander to achieve such a one sided victory) all within his first week of command. How much more agressive would you like him to have been? I think he had enough on his plate and the days immediatly following G-burg is the first time he could really look at what he had in front of him.

[OpnDownfall]

Meade did yeoman's service to the Nation and the AoP. But the fact is, he conviction that Northing more could have been reasonably done, is indicative of his inability to fight through to victory as the only commander of the AoP.

[Dred]

I still think he deserves more credit than he gets. At the least he was more competent at getting things done than any of his predecesssors.

[OpnDownfall]

The History books have been kind to Meade, he is recognized as the winner at Gettysburg and is almost always favorably compared with his predecessors; and retained command of the AoP to the end of the war.
It is just that after one says that, you have just about said all there is to be said about Meade as an Army Commander.
Very few remind us that he was not replaced after Gettysburg, because there was no one better than him within the ranks of the AoP and that fact says more about the officer corps of AoP than it does about Meade.

[Borderruffian]

Just my opinion but given the battle the AoP had just fought how hard could Meade actually have pushed his army.

Both the ANV and AoP had beat each other up and were by no means the same armies they had been prior to G'burg in this time frame.

You can only push men so hard without it having adverse effects.

[OpnDownfall]

Lee drove his defeated army too hard getting out of Pa., but he save his army.
The mark against Meade is not that he drove his army too hard, but they he didn't drive it at all.
If history has proven anything at all, it is that the AoP would fight whenever required. After Gettysburg, Meade never felt confident enough to require his army to fight, again. Even for a chance to end the war in the East.

[Ozark Iron John]

From my perspective ....

In a war full of fiascos, this one sets right up there on top. Granted they'd done had their hat's handed too 'em quite a few times and they were stung pretty hard after Gettysburg, but ...

These were West Point trained officers and seasoned veterans. They made a BIG mistake. You don't let a lion limp off into the jungle to live to fight another day. You track him down, you run him down, you turn loose the dogs of war and chase him down and kill him.

General Meade was FAR too lax pursuing General Lee's retreat from Gettysburg.

He should've reformed and reconstituted and pursued immediately. There were blue boys there that were chomping at the bit to get after the rebs. He could've put together a regiment or two and harassed them all the way to the river. He could've had two or three reconstituted divisions in line in more'n enough time to smash the defeated remnants of the Army of Northern Virgina.

If your's truly had been in charge .....

Well I would've probably died out front with the men, but if I'd been one of them Benedict Arnold University graduates and holed up somewhere's coordinatin' the fight .....

[Borderruffian]

Originally Posted by OpnDownfall

Lee drove his defeated army too hard getting out of Pa., but he save his army.
The mark against Meade is not that he drove his army too hard, but they he didn't drive it at all.
If history has proven anything at all, it is that the AoP would fight whenever required. After Gettysburg, Meade never felt confident enough to require his army to fight, again. Even for a chance to end the war in the East.

I'd counter with, the average CS solider ANV had a whole lot more motovation to get back to Dixie than the average solider AoP had to pursue him into Dixie after a fight of G'burgs magnitude.

Meade did fight again after G'burg the Bristoe and Mine Run campaigns were fought under Meades command and while not the best or most shining examples of Union Arms and were perhaps examples of Meades lack of aggressive tactics or his propensity to err on the side of caution the blanket statement of Meade not requiring his army to fight after G'burg is false.

Meade commanded the AoP in the Wilderness and at Petersburg under Grant who was General and Chief of the Union Army not CG AoP. Grant considered Meade for command in the Shenandoah.

Meade may have had his faults but in my opinion having taken command of the AoP what? 3 days prior to G'burg routing a invasion and preventing a CS victory that could have caused even Ol'Abe to sue for peace at the most or severly threatened Washington at the least isn't a half bad outing for the "Ol' Snapping Turtle" given the time he had to make decisions and coordinate his command.

Yes the AoP would fight but again the question of the condition of the Army has to asked after three days of fighting in the summer heat many regiments being down to the 50% 60% range.The supplyand logistics that would be needed to follow a rapid chase of Lee's retreat. The pyshical and mental condition of the troops and the company and field grade officers also needs to be into account. And the victory at G'burg did not automatically turn the AoP into an undefeatable formation capable of all asked from it.

Factor in other varibles from the point of view that Meade might have had. A fast pursuit of the ANV and the ANV reaching high ground before the AoP could bring enough force to bear...possible Pickett's Charge in reverse? While bloodied and battered the ANV was still capable of inflicting a hurt on the AoP.

Stuarts cavalry was still out there and screening the retreat. Given Jebs love of daring-do a run at a strung out supply train would have been right up his alley and then what? Buckland races a year early?

But you could spit ball it to death.

Given the totality of the circumstance, Meade's newness to command of such a large formation, the size and ferocity of the battle just fought and the fact that Meade was on the ground with an eyeball on the conditions, unlike Halleck, Stanton or Ol'Abe I'll accept his judgement.